Rupert Friend and Michelle Pfeiffer in "Cheri," Miramax Films, 2009

But the woman is almost the male figure here, it's a rather striking reversal, with Cheri feminine and passive, and Lea organized and commanding.

That's my experience of life. The women are much stronger, clearer. In films, the women are very, very dependable. The men are frailer, much more anxious about themselves.

Lea's not only strong and worldly. She's footing the bill and managing the money, which is certainly a reversal.

Yes, if Cheri had been in a relationship with Leona Helmsley, I'm sure she'd have controlled the money.

What's it like to direct Michelle Pfeiffer?

She's very, very tricky, you have to get the camera in the right place. If it's not, she's inexpressive. Then you bring the camera in the right place and she simply comes to life. It's quite mysterious, her power. I remember looking at her in a great wide shot and wondering, why is she able to make this shot work?

You've guided some top actresses to Oscar nods. What's your method for eliciting such fine performances?

Oh, we communicate through a series of grunts. [Rupert Friend clarified earlier in the day, "Stephen is a great conductor of humans without ever really saying anything."]

According to Rupert Friend, he and Michelle only met the night before shooting. How did you assure there would be chemistry between the two?

There's not a lot you can do about it. It's out of your hands, and you just hope it's going to work. And in this case, it did. If it didn't, it would be a nightmare.

Colette is such a sensual writer. But the film doesn't dwell on that aspect of her work, except for the clothes and décor. Why did you steer away from that?

I can't answer your question, it's a matter of taste.

We often see Cheri in various states of undress. Why don't you show Lea's body? You never do, ever. When you first see them making love you see her long hair from behind. It seems very coy.

You sort these things out privately.

Well, you're trying to create a believable world, aren't you? If you're trying to undermine it, there would be no point in doing it.

How would that undermine it?

I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm a discreet person. [Pfeiffer herself came up with more of an answer: it's Cheri we see cavorting semi-naked because the film privileges the female gaze and “Cheri is the object of desire.”]

What was greatest challenge of the shoot?

To deal with the surface and the underneath at the same time. They're not people who talk about their feelings. On the surface, there's all this sort of froth and delight in costumes. Underneath it all, there's a more tragic story going on. The music [by Alexandre Desplat] is a way you illuminate the interior story. So the whole time, you were trying to make the film operate on two different levels.

You have tremendous range in your work. Is there is a common denominator?

I assume there is, but I've no idea. The subversive [interests me], marginalized people -- I see them as an opposition. “Liaisons” is about emotional hooligans. It's about attacking Mrs. Thatcher. I can see that psychologically I'm an odd duck.

Despite all the challenges, do you feel that you've captured Colette's novella?

I never think that, I depend on other people to tell me that.

What's up next?

If I knew, I'd tell you. If you find out, let me know.

"Cheri" opens in limited release on June 26th.

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Frederieke Taylor

What a great interview; it gives a real sense of the director's intent and his character.

Otis Knoop

As a longtime fan of Frears, I learned something new from this interview and it makes me want to see the film even though it sounds dubious. This interviewer got the pearl from the oyster.