Director Kirby Dick

He told Page Six a few days ago that "It's a [bleep]ing outrage..."

[laughs] Thank you for mentioning the title of my film.

...and goes on to talk about his record on AIDS and gay rights to refute claims that it was "nonexistent." What's your response to him?

That's laudable, and I don't dispute that. To give a different perspective on it, the AIDS epidemic began in 1981, but New York City didn't begin funding any funding for AIDS until 1984, when there were at least 1,700 cases. Those were the crucial years. And it's that that this film is about. He didn't do what he could have done -- and I think in some ways he's acknowledged that.

Tell me about Charlie Crist -- he's in many ways the crux of the film, the person with aspirations for the highest offices in the country, who seems like he fits into every pattern that you talk about when you go into the history of closeted politicians. What led to the focus on him, given no one was willing to go on camera and say "I had sex with that man"?

Well, that's the challenge of the closet. People are powerful and they're resolute in keeping the closet door shut. And people who've had relationships with them, there's a great deal of fear. But Charlie Crist is interesting because he's very middle-of-the-road. He says he has this "live and let live" philosophy, and I think he actually does. But he made a decision to support Amendment 2, which not only outlawed gay marriage in Florida, but outlawed civil unions as well. It barely passed. If he had come out against it, I think there's a very good chance that it wouldn't have. This may be the most enduring legacy of his administration. There are a lot of rumors about him being gay and I think he was afraid -- it was a political risk

Then, of course, he went out and got married. When McCain was running for president, he was mentioned as a possible VP candidate, and a very viable one, because Florida's a swing state. There'd been rumors for a long time that he was gay, and people speculated that that's one of the reasons he didn't get the nomination. So I think what he did was say, "Look, I'm gonna get married, I want to be President," It's really sad, from my perspective -- this shows the damage of the closet, of a man who, if he was out, would not be supporting Amendment 2. That's my feeling.

Well, you get married. Larry Craig did the same thing. Jim McGreevy got married after these rumors started circulating, and it seemed to be effective in keeping the lid on. I think Crist has boxed himself in a corner with getting married. Right now it's hard to imagine that a gay candidate could win the presidency, but it's only two or three years ago that the question was, "Could an African-American win the presidency?" If the politician was skilled and came on at the right time, I think that's a real possibility. That would be a wonderful moment, if, Democrat or Republican, an out candidate was running for the presidency.

This is your third film in a row that's overtly attempting to affect change. How do you feel that documentary film fits into that?

Part of the reason that documentary films have moved into this arena over the last decade is the demise of investigative journalism departments at the major newspapers. That's a real tragedy, but it's created an opportunity for documentary filmmakers. You can [also] attribute it to George W. Bush. While he was in office, a lot of documentary filmmakers felt that there wasn't enough critique of what was happening, and were so angry that their films became more advocacy. To some degree, that would be true of me.

["Outrage"} isn't purely an advocacy film because it's interested in the psychology and the journalistic complexity of this issue, the historical nature of it. But I would love this film to contribute to the demise of the closet in American politics. I want people to be entertained and enjoy watching, but I want them to do much more. I want to push them as far as possible.

There's sometimes a sense that non-fiction cinema is dominated by the advocacy film -- do you feel like that's fair, that documentaries tend to be treated less like film than journalism, say?

I don't see myself as a journalist, though there's a great deal of journalism in this film. What I would like to see with documentary films is people being ambitious with what they do, and I think making a film that tries to change things is ambitious. Making a film that explores a psychologically complex individual can also be ambitious. In some ways documentaries have taken on a similar characteristic to books -- they're about a subject. I'm actually less interested in that kind of film, because you're not really pushing what the documentary can do. Documentaries have so much potential, both as an art form and as a sort of political engagement. More demand has to be made on documentary filmmakers. It's not enough just to get a film made -- which is very hard! -- in this field with the potential it has, [which] it still hasn't reached.

"Outrage" opens in limited on May 8th.

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Multimedia Arts

Kirby Dick is a profound filmmaker. I loved his
"This film is not yet rated" docu. Interested in seeing
this as well.