Werner Herzog journeys “Into the Abyss”

Werner Herzog journeys “Into the Abyss” (photo)

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For Werner Herzog, filmmaking has always been a life or death pursuit. The 69 year old director nearly died at least five different times making his 1982 film “Fitzcarraldo” — and that was just one movie in an almost forty year career! When you ask Herzog “How’s it going?” at the start of an interview and he replies “Well, I’m still alive,” it’s not just a cute line; it’s a personal accomplishment.

The struggle for survival in a mad world is a prominent theme in a lot of Herzog’s work and it’s crucial to the director’s latest film, the documentary “Into the Abyss.” Herzog travels to Texas where he interviews the survivors of a horrific triple homicide. He speaks with the victims’ families, reverends, and even convicted killers, one of whom, Michael Perry, was scheduled to be executed just eight days after Herzog’s visit. The subject matter — an unthinkable and pointless crime and the grim business of seeking justice through an execution — is dark, but Herzog sprinkles the story with what he describes as glimpses of hope: a woman who has found love with one of the convicted murderers, a former death row guard rejecting his old job because it made him unhappy. No wonder Herzog subtitled the film “A Tale of Death, a Tale of Life.”

Our conversation about “Into the Abyss” covered both topics: we discussed Herzog’s interest in Perry’s case and in the death penalty in general (he is currently working on a four-part television miniseries on the subject), as well as the mysterious nature of love and the pleasures of shooting a film in Texas. We wrapped things up with just a couple minutes on his upcoming acting work as the villain in Tom Cruise’s “One Shot.”

Were you looking to make a film about the death penalty for a while or was it this particular story that appealed to you?

Well I have been in contact with many men and one woman on death row. I avoided the average murder cases, where somebody robs a bank and there’s a shootout and a guard at the bank is killed and then they end up on death row, because there seems to be an aim or purpose to robbing a bank: getting the cash. In the Perry/Burkett case, what was so staggering was the amount of senselessness. And that really frightened me and drew my attention.

In making “Into the Abyss” you seem to have upended two of the biggest conventions of documentaries about the death penalty. First, they’re almost always about people who are very clearly innocent, and they detail how there’s been a miscarriage of justice–

Yeah, I’m not interested in this business. In our case in “Into the Abyss” you cannot really much argue innocence or guilt. A court of law has decided and a jury has decided and the evidence is overwhelming beyond the two confessions which were very detailed with knowledge only the real perpetrator could have. The film doesn’t really go deep into that, it’s not the business of this movie.

Exactly my point. It’s not about proving someone’s innocence, and it’s not about the other big death penalty documentary convention: trying to get someone’s wrongful conviction overturned. You interviewed Michael Perry eight days before his execution: there was no way you could have saved his life even if you wanted to.

I told the inmates right away: “This films is not going to serve as a platform for proving your innocence. Do you still want to talk to me?” I’m straightforward with Perry, who I knew would die within eight days. I tell him within the first 120 seconds of talking to him, “Destiny hasn’t handed out a good deck of cards to you. It doesn’t exonerate you and besides, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I have to like you.” After less than two minutes, it could have been the end of the conversation.

Were you worried it might be?

No, because if he had stopped the conversation, okay. But he should know my position, and they know if you’re a phony from miles away. They all like me for being so straightforward with them. Every single one wanted me back, not a single exception.

My favorite character in the film is Melyssa Thompson-Burkett, who fell in love with and married one of the convicted killers while working on his case. In the film she describes how she was convinced that her love for her husband was real when she saw a rainbow and took it as a sign.

Yes, a sign that he was innocent and that she belongs to him. Well, she had fallen in love. That was one thing. And all of a sudden a sign like full rainbow from the prison toward her. Some portents still carry significance to a man or a woman in the 21st century.

Have you ever done something in your life based on something you witnessed and interpreted as a sign?

[laughs] No. But I find it a fascinating concept. Unfortunately we have lost it from our everyday lives since the late Middle Ages or so. But of course in antiquity, beautiful signs could decide the course of a whole military campaign and change the course of history.

When you’re talking to Melyssa you also bring up the subject of death row groupies — women who are strangely drawn to these convicted murderers. That is such a fascinating concept.

Yes, but in a way, Melyssa doesn’t count herself among them. She’s too intelligent and articulate. And a groupie would not practically work for the legal papers of an inmate for more than two years before she even sees him. If you’re a groupie, you’re just out for fornication, period.

She’s certainly not in this category. But it’s all so mysterious. Something about love is mysterious. How does it work? How does it all of a sudden have you in its grip? How is it that a man and a woman recognize they belong to each other no matter what? So there’s lots of mysterious things about destiny, love, things that we can never understand fully.

When you’re looking for a topic for a film, are you looking for those elements, or are those sorts of mysteries happy accidents?

I’m a filmmaker and I’m a storyteller. I have my focus and I pursue things. I want to look deep into human beings, otherwise I would end up with 300 hours of mediocre footage, all small talk. I’m not into that. I’m not a surveillance camera in Wal-Mart, absent and unobtrusive, less than the fly on the wall. No, I’m a filmmaker. And I accept my duties as a filmmaker. And in a way, I’m good at what I’m doing.

What do you think about Texas? Did you enjoy being there and shooting the movie there?

Yes, I like Texas. I’m not in the business of Texas bashing. You hear this ugly term “the flyovers.” “Oh, this is all mid-America, they are the flyovers.” It is very, very ugly. I do not accept it and I speak up against it. Whenever I hear this term, I voice my outrage because you find some of the best of the best in middle America. Like Fred Allen, the former captain of the tie-down team [and interview subject in the film]: it can’t get any better. That’s what I like to see in America, men like him. Phenomenal integrity and such a big heart.

In “Into the Abyss” we hear your voice but we never see you onscreen. In other documentaries, like “Cave of Forgotten Dreams,” you appear as a character in the film. What determines the decision whether appear on camera?

When I am on camera, it is because it is inevitable. In “Cave of Forgotten Dreams,” we had to line up on a 2 foot wide metal walkway and you could never step off it because on the ground you had fairly fresh tracks of cave bears who, as a species, became extinct 25,000 years ago. You just don’t trample with your boots on that. So it became inevitable that the crew working became visible once in a while because you can’t step behind the camera and hide. This is the only reason you see me.

You would prefer it if you were never seen in your documentaries?

Yes, but of course I do commentaries, written by me and spoken by me. In “Into the Abyss” it didn’t feel right to have a commentary at all. So I do the discourses; you hear my voice, you never see me. In a way, the substance of a film dictates the form. So it’s very natural that there’s no commentary in “Into the Abyss.”

Is there something you hope audiences take from this movie?

You never know exactly, but it’s good for the movie and good for the audiences that there’s no commentary and you hear only the voices of the people involved as victims, families, tie-down man, you name it.

And now you’re working on a television series on the death penalty?

Yes, four hourlong films.

As you speak to these convicts on death row, is there something they all have in common?

I haven’t spoken to too many, but they are very different individuals. People tell me all the time, “They are monsters. They shouldn’t even have a trial, just shoot them,” or something like this. No, I respectfully disagree. Firstly, due process is a phenomenal achievement of civilization and we should not let it go down the drain. And secondly, I do understand the crimes are monstrous. But the perpetrators are always human beings. And I treat them like human beings.

Before we’ve got to wrap things up, I want to talk to you about your upcoming role as the villain in Tom Cruise‘s “One-Shot.” I’ve always enjoyed you as an actor.

Yes, thank you.

Do you get offered a lot of acting roles or is it a rare thing? I’m always hoping you’ll do more.

I have done quite a bit, but a lot of it is with my voice, like as a character for “The Simpsons” or a plastic bag in a film by Ramin Bahrani. And I’m good at that. For example, I did a reading of a children’s book for grown ups called “Go the Fuck to Sleep” which I never planned to do but my friend who runs the programs at the New York Public Library kept telling me “Please, please, just for this!” So I finally said yes. In the editing room we have a microphone; I did it in six minutes. Now people like it much better than the official version by Samuel L. Jackson.

Having heard both, I agree. I think you trumped him.

Well, what you have heard is only a very, very bad recording from a cell phone sitting with an audience and you hear their laughter. The sound quality is abysmal. But now apparently the publisher as a footnote to Sam Jackson’s rendering of it, wants to have mine as well.

So tell me about working on the Tom Cruise film.

I haven’t started; production started, but my shooting will start in December.

You haven’t played many villains onscreen before.

Well, I’ve played dangerous looking guys, let’s say. Dysfunctional, violent, debased. I’m quite good at that, like in Harmony Korine’s films.

I can only speculate, but probably the director [Christopher McQuarrie] and the studio and Tom Cruise have seen some of my acting. Otherwise you don’t run the risk just to cast a guy with a funny accent. You can’t afford something like that in a big studio film.

Absolutely. What’s your favorite Tom Cruise movie?

I think “Mission: Impossible” is impressive.

“Into the Abyss” opens in limited release this Friday. If you see it, we want to hear what you think. Tell us in the comments below or write to us on Facebook and Twitter.

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Hard Out

Comedy From The Closet

Janice and Jeffrey Available Now On IFC's Comedy Crib

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She’s been referred to as “the love child of Amy Sedaris and Tracy Ullman,” and he’s a self-described “Italian who knows how to cook a great spaghetti alla carbonara.” They’re Mollie Merkel and Matteo Lane, prolific indie comedians who blended their robust creative juices to bring us the new Comedy Crib series Janice and Jeffrey. Mollie and Matteo took time to answer our probing questions about their series and themselves. Here’s a taste.


IFC: How would you describe Janice and Jeffrey to a fancy network executive you met in an elevator?

Mollie & Matteo: Janice and Jeffrey is about a married couple experiencing intimacy issues but who don’t have a clue it’s because they are gay. Their oblivion makes them even more endearing.  Their total lack of awareness provides for a buffet of comedy.

IFC: What’s your origin story? How did you two people meet and how long have you been working together?

Mollie: We met at a dive bar in Wrigley Field Chicago. It was a show called Entertaining Julie… It was a cool variety scene with lots of talented people. I was doing Janice one night and Matteo was doing an impression of Liza Minnelli. We sort of just fell in love with each other’s… ACT! Matteo made the first move and told me how much he loved Janice and I drove home feeling like I just met someone really special.

IFC: How would Janice describe Jeffrey?

Mollie: “He can paint, cook homemade Bolognese, and sing Opera. Not to mention he has a great body. He makes me feel empowered and free. He doesn’t suffocate me with attention so our love has room to breath.”

IFC: How would Jeffrey describe Janice?

Matteo: “Like a Ford. Built to last.”

IFC: Why do you think the world is ready for this series?

Mollie & Matteo: Our current political world is mirroring and reflecting this belief that homosexuality is wrong. So what better time for satire. Everyone is so pro gay and equal rights, which is of course what we want, too. But no one is looking at middle America and people actually in the closet. No one is saying, hey this is really painful and tragic, and sitting with that. Having compassion but providing the desperate relief of laughter…This seemed like the healthiest, best way to “fight” the gay rights “fight”.

IFC: Hummus is hilarious. Why is it so funny?

Mollie: It just seems like something people take really seriously, which is funny to me. I started to see it in a lot of lesbians’ refrigerators at a time. It’s like observing a lesbian in a comfortable shoe. It’s a language we speak. Pass the Hummus. Turn on the Indigo Girls would ya?

See the whole season of Janice and Jeffrey right now on IFC’s Comedy Crib.

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Die Hard Dads

Inspiration For Die Hard Dads

Die Hard is on IFC all Father's Day Long

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Photo Credit: Everett Collection, GIPHY

Yippee ki-yay, everybody! It’s time to celebrate the those most literal of mother-effers: dads!

And just in case the title of this post left anything to the imagination, IFC is giving dads balls-to-the-wall ’80s treatment with a glorious marathon of action trailblazer Die Hard.

There are so many things we could say about Die Hard. We could talk about how it was comedian Bruce Willis’s first foray into action flicks, or Alan Rickman’s big screen debut. But dads don’t give a sh!t about that stuff.

No, dads just want to fantasize that they could be deathproof quip factory John McClane in their own mundane lives. So while you celebrate the fathers in your life, consider how John McClane would respond to these traditional “dad” moments…

Wedding Toasts

Dads always struggle to find the right words of welcome to extend to new family. John McClane, on the other hand, is the master of inclusivity.
Die Hard wedding

Using Public Restrooms

While nine out of ten dads would rather die than use a disgusting public bathroom, McClane isn’t bothered one bit. So long as he can fit a bloody foot in the sink, he’s G2G.
Die Hard restroom

Awkward Dancing

Because every dad needs a signature move.
Die Hard dance

Writing Thank You Notes

It can be hard for dads to express gratitude. Not only can McClane articulate his thanks, he makes it feel personal.
Die Hard thank you

Valentine’s Day

How would John McClane say “I heart you” in a way that ain’t cliche? The image speaks for itself.
Die Hard valentines


The only thing most dads hate more than shopping is fielding eleventh-hour phone calls with additional items for the list. But does McClane throw a typical man-tantrum? Nope. He finds the words to express his feelings like a goddam adult.
Die Hard thank you

Last Minute Errands

John McClane knows when a fight isn’t worth fighting.
Die Hard errands

Sneaking Out Of The Office Early

What is this, high school? Make a real exit, dads.
Die Hard office

Think you or your dad could stand to be more like Bruce? Role model fodder abounds in the Die Hard marathon all Father’s Day long on IFC.

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Founding Farters

Know Your Nerd History

Revenge of the Nerds is on IFC.

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Photo Credit: Everett Collection, GIFs via Giphy

That we live in the heyday of nerds is no hot secret. Scientists are celebrities, musicians are robots and late night hosts can recite every word of the Silmarillion. It’s too easy to think that it’s always been this way. But the truth is we owe much to our nerd forebearers who toiled through the jock-filled ’80s so that we might take over the world.


Our humble beginnings are perhaps best captured in iconic ’80s romp Revenge of the Nerds. Like the founding fathers of our Country, the titular nerds rose above their circumstances to culturally pave the way for every Colbert and deGrasse Tyson that we know and love today.

To make sure you’re in the know about our very important cultural roots, here’s a quick download of the vengeful nerds without whom our shameful stereotypes might never have evolved.

Lewis Skolnick

The George Washington of nerds whose unflappable optimism – even in the face of humiliating self-awareness – basically gave birth to the Geek Pride movement.

Gilbert Lowe

OK, this guy is wet blanket, but an important wet blanket. Think Aaron Burr to Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Hamilton. His glass-mostly-empty attitude is a galvanizing force for Lewis. Who knows if Lewis could have kept up his optimism without Lowe’s Debbie-Downer outlook?

Arnold Poindexter

A music nerd who, after a soft start (inside joke, you’ll get it later), came out of his shell and let his passion lead instead of his anxiety. If you played an instrument (specifically, electric violin), and you were a nerd, this was your patron saint.


A sex-loving, blunt-smoking, nose-picking guitar hero. If you don’t think he sounds like a classic nerd, you’re absolutely right. And that’s the whole point. Along with Lamar, he simultaneously expanded the definition of nerd and gave pre-existing nerds a twisted sort of cred by association.

Lamar Latrell

Black, gay, and a crazy good breakdancer. In other words, a total groundbreaker. He proved to the world that nerds don’t have a single mold, but are simply outcasts waiting for their moment.


Exceedingly stupid, this dumbass was monumental because he (in a sequel) leaves the jocks to become a nerd. Totally unheard of back then. Now all jocks are basically nerds.

Well, there they are. Never forget that we stand on their shoulders.

Revenge of the Nerds is on IFC all month long.

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