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Interview: Liturgy’s Hunter Hunt-Hendrix on the death and rebirth of black metal

Interview: Liturgy’s Hunter Hunt-Hendrix on the death and rebirth of black metal (photo)

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My favorite record of the year might be Aesthethica, the second album from Brooklyn black metal quartet Liturgy. At once, Aesthethica is a clear continuation of and break from black metal orthodoxy, the sort of record that has devoured the lessons of the past while vowing to build something new from them.

That said, one of my favorite new musicians of the past few years might be Liturgy’s frontman and sole composer, Hunter Hunt-Hendrix. To say that members of the metal community loathe Liturgy would be to understate it; these “Brooklyn black metal hipsters” are handled like pariahs, heavy metal infidels that aren’t beholden to the sacrosanct nature of the music they make. But Hunt-Hendrix holds true, not only writing an involved manifesto called Transcendental Black Metal but also going on at length in interviews about his interest in music that’s not of the fold.

We spoke with Hunt-Hendrix by phone. Before you read the interview, download three tracks off of Aesthethica, and enjoy as you read: “High Gold,” “Returner,” and “Generation.”

You just returned from a European tour. How did the audiences greet the new material?

The tour went really well. It went awesomely well. We were a little surprised by how positive our reception in Europe was, and how easy it was to go back and forth between more metal shows and more experimental shows. Symbolically, we played the Roadburn Fest earlier on, which is the mecca of metal festivals. Then we played the Donau Festival in Vienna, which was a totally different environment. It was curated by Ben Frost, and we met Rhys Chatham. That was awesome, too. A lot of the bullshit that alienates people from our band in the States doesn’t have the same effect in Europe, for whatever reason.

It’s funny: I was just speaking with Altar of Plagues, another black metal band, and they said the exact opposite, that America seemed more open to their interpretation of black metal.

They’re from Ireland, right? Maybe it just has to do with crossing the Atlantic, regardless of which side you’re coming from or going to. I think there is something to that: When you play in a different country, people are just more respectful. It’s like, “Wow, you came all the way over here. You’re serious.” If you just drive to Richmond or something, people are like, “I could have driven to Richmond.” You’re just one of a billion bands. Maybe people are more willing to accept what you’re doing if you come from far away.

Does playing Europe make you nervous at all? After all, you’re disassembling and reassembling the version of black metal that they created. Are you worried that they’ll interpret it as sacrilege?

That is what we’re doing. I think that black metal is dead. What I call Hyperborean black metal is over. But I think a lot of Europeans agree with that. We didn’t go to Scandinavia this past tour, but we did play in Scandinavia last fall, in September. People in Scandinavia don’t care about black metal at all. They’re totally sick of black metal. The second wave was really getting going in the early ’90s, even the late ’80s. I think people are tired of that stuff and excited to see a band trying to build something new out of the ashes of the past. I’m sure there are people who are critical, too. Those people probably didn’t come to our shows, so I didn’t have a chance to really talk to them.

This album, Aesthethica, is such a step forward in terms of ideas and execution from Renihilation. At what point did these changes and risks become clear?

Yeah, the musical logic develops on its own. I’m writing the music. That’s not always totally clear to journalists, but I write it all in advance. There was no way we were going to remake Renihilation again. That record was so intense throughout the entire time, it was, “Why would you make another one of those?” That would be a failure, to repeat something like that. I wanted to be able to write a longer record, first of all, and incorporate really long, hypnotic segments to contrast with the bursting-at-the-seams, really climactic segments. To me, the development felt pretty organic. From my perspective, this is what the band has been leading up to, from the start, as opposed to it being some kind of left turn, some big surprise. It’s just that we weren’t quite able to get there.

There was an awareness that it would alienate more black metal fans than the last record, but we didn’t have those black metal fans until the last record. It’s definitely bad news if you’re thinking about which fans you’re going to satisfy and which fans you’re going to alienate, or which audiences you’re going to reach. Good music comes when you really have a strong urge to make some kind of sound, and then you obsessively make it. You just throw it out there, and let the reactions happen in whatever way they’re gonna. That’s sort of the organic, real way to make music. I am a little bit surprised by the Internet firestorm that’s been going on for the past month or two about our band. I am surprised by how much people hate Liturgy. It’s a little more than expected.

What’s been the most shocking aspect of that so far? What has someone said that’s surprised you the most?

It’s easy to answer that question. What’s most surprising is the degree to which homosexuality figures into the slander. That was never the case for the last record. For the last record, it was just kind of, “Well, this doesn’t take too many risks,” or “They’re boring,” or “Too hyped” or “They’re from Brooklyn.” It was something like that. Now, it’s like, “These guys are fags. These guys deserved to get fucked in the ass–to death.” It’s this violent, gay, rape stuff. It’s all over the place, and it freaks me out a little bit. Somehow, some threshold was crossed. It’s less dismissive, and more, like, really, really angry. But this gay thing comes out of nowhere. It underscores the disconnect between me and my world and my group of friends and the people who are blogging. We would never think to use homophobic language and imagery to insult somebody, at all. It weirds me out because I feel disconnected from the community of people who are taking the time to do this. I wouldn’t want to be friends with them.

Obviously, we’re dealing in a form where dark, sometimes vile things are pretty commonplace. Do you think it’s just a result of that, or is it out of defense for the form?

Well, that’s kind of a good question. There’s such a fine line but also an enormous difference between bypassing or ignoring or not commenting on something you don’t like versus writing a whole lot of angry stuff about somebody you don’t like. Maybe it’s repressed homosexual tendencies.

I doubt that statement will ameliorate the situation.

Oh, right. Maybe that should be off the record, but I don’t know. (Laughs.) I don’t know how many black metal fans will be going to the IFC blog, anyway. The blogosphere scandal stuff for me is just fun, in a way. It’s so weird to do an interview and know that in a couple of hours or days, there’s going to be this building pool of text that shows up on the same website. It’s a very eerie thing.

It’s always been curious to me that your Transcendental Black Metal manifesto exists as a book and not just a massive Internet essay.

I was just asked to publish it. That was originally delivered as a lecture at the Hideous Gnosis: Black Metal Theory Symposium, you know? Then it was published in a journal, and then they ended up making a book out of that black metal symposium. It was published there again, and now it’s a stand-alone thing because Rich Loren, the Pyramids and Handmade Birds guy, asked me to publish it. I was glad, because I wanted to publish it. But your question is why on paper instead of on the Internet?

Exactly. Did you want to try to create real conversation among people about it, instead of simple online bickering?

That’s really interesting. I never really thought about that, but I guess it’s pretty true. I took the manifesto pretty seriously. I spent a long time writing it, and I do want it to be in a forum where people might read and re-read it, not just glance at it and judge it. I wanted to put it in a forum for sound discourse. It’s so funny because so much of the reaction to the manifesto–well, in some cases, that has happened. There were reviews of the Hideous Gnosis book in various academic journals, but most of the comments still are on the Internet. They’re always just complaints about the fact of having written the manifesto. I’ve never seen anyone engage with what’s actually written, with what the argument is. People think it’s so absurd to write something about that at all, that I think I saw one blog post that made the point that there’s content inside the manifesto that one might consider and react to, rather than just react to the performative act of putting the manifesto out there. It’s as though any manifesto is the same as any other.

In a way, that applies to your music, right? The kids calling you names care less about what you stand for and how you look than, you know, how you might sound.

There is a parallel there, that people react a lot more to our look a lot more than they react to the music itself. I understand. It begs the question of why people listen to music. In defense of people who react to our look and hate us just based on that, especially kids and teenagers, one of the reasons you listen to music is not because you just want to hear the sequence of sounds that makes you feel the best. There are subcultures and communities. “I dress like you. We get along. We are enemies with this other subculture. Our politics are the same.” For rock music, especially, that is half of what loving music is, identifying with a scene. I certainly felt that way when I was in high school. I was a hardcore kid. There’s no rule that people have to overlook all of that stuff and just focus on the sounds, because that’s not how it works anyway. A lot of musicians don’t think about that or talk about that exclusively, but it’s true.

That is one thing I disagree with Krallice about–the ideas behind music. I’ve talked to Colin [Marston, Krallice guitarist] about that stuff. He thinks it’s all about the music, that the ideas don’t matter, or he doesn’t care what you call it or who makes it. Especially with non-classical music, looks and ideas and opinions and symbols are a really big part of it. I can understand people being angry.

If there were a scene built around Liturgy, what would it ideally look like?

I definitely don’t know how to answer that question. It would have to be a scene of… Well, I’m happy for it to be a smattering of people from all different scenes, I guess. The only way it could be one scene is if there ended up being a whole lot of other bands in the same vein as Liturgy. I don’t think that’s realistic. I think we have to snipe people away from different existing scenes. That’s an interesting question, not one that I’ve thought about enough to have an answer for.

You implied that this band wasn’t ready to make this sort of album the first time around, that this is the progression. Why weren’t you ready?

One of the biggest challenges of this band is just getting people to show up to practice and to agree to go on tour. You see a band that’s out there doing it, and it just seems like it must have just fallen into place easily. But there’s a long period of time, I think, in any band if it’s one person who really wants to do it, where the other people don’t see what’s going to happen. “Well, this isn’t worth my time. I don’t want to go to practice. I want to go to a show or hang out.” Renihilation was put together so, so quickly. We barely had any time because people were so busy with other stuff. This is the first record where we had the time and commitment from people to sit down and really do it, work hard on all the stuff.

Was there any more collaboration on Aesthethica than on Renihilation?

No. It’s weird that people usually don’t have that sense that there’s really no collaboration at all. I demo the songs, and I send out the demos. We go through stuff. There are things that change as that process happens. Maybe if something doesn’t work as well live for some reason. It’s more carefully composed than people might think, because it sounds so chaotic and so free. But it sounds the exact same way each time.

How important for you has it been to retain that one-man control?

It’s not something I’ve ever had to fight for. This isn’t the kind of band where it’s like, “Who has creative control?” It’s not like Bernard [Gann, Liturgy guitarist] would ever come in and say, “I have this song I think we should play.” There’s no discussion like that. For me, it’s always been a matter of getting people to spend the time to play the songs. Everyone else is interested in their other projects, and those are their creative outlets.

Thrill Jockey, your new record label, includes no other metal bands. Why go with a label that’s more known for indie rock and experimental music when metal fans already pan you?

When the opportunity came up, it just felt kind of perfect. It felt more like a comfortable community that made sense to be a part of. It certainly eased a lot of anxieties, because the less we’re a part of the metal institutions, the more comfortable we are. It’s just where we belong, I guess. Whether that alienates people or not, you can’t think like that.

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Ghost World Thora Birch Scarlett Johansson

Graphic Fiction

10 Offbeat Comic Book Movies You Need To See

Catch The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen this month on IFC.

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Photo Credit: Everett Collection

When we think of movies based on comic books, our minds tend to drift towards tights, spectacular powers and origin stories about how those extraordinary powers come with great responsibilities. But not all comic books star superheroes, and not all movies adapted from them do either. In fact, there are a diverse array of films based on graphic novels and comic book titles, telling stories about everything from sexual awakening to cold blooded revenge. Here are a few comic book flix that are worth checking out while you wait for Captain America and Spider-Man to return to the big screen.

10. Persepolis

Persepolis
Sony Pictures Classic

Marjane Satrapi codirected and cowrote the screenplay for this acclaimed animated film, based on her autobiographical graphic novel of the same name. Through vivid animation and moving voiceover, the film tells the tale of Satrapi coming of age as a punk rock-loving kid during the Iranian revolution. A revolution itself, Persepolis scored the 2007 Grand Jury Prize at the Cannes Film Festival and further pushed the boundaries of what a comic book movie can accomplish.


9. Mystery Men

Mystery Men
Universal Pictures

Despite a fun script and an amazing cast (everyone from Ben Stiller to Eddie Izzard to Dane Cook is in this thing), Mystery Men never got much credit for spoofing the superhero genre way before the comic book movie glut. Based on Bob Burden’s Flaming Carrot comics, Mystery Men came and went when it was released back in 1999. It’s worth a second look, if for no other reason than to see Paul Reubens as a superhero with the power of explosive flatulence.


8. The Rocketeer

The Rocketeer
Disney

Released in 1991 on the heels of Batman and Dick Tracy, The Rocketeer was poised to be the next big comic book blockbuster. But the movie fizzled at the box office, eventually finding a much-deserved cult following on home video. Directed by Joe Johnston with the same mix of heart, humor and action-packed thrills that he brought to Captain America: The First Avenger, The Rocketeer is a throwback to classic pulp adventures presented with zero camp. A faithful adaptation of the late Dave Stevens’ graphic novel, it’s a franchise that Disney should consider rebooting. Maybe a Rocketeer/Captain America crossover?


7. Snowpiercer

Weinstein Company
Weinstein Company

Yes, that insanely awesome movie where Chris Evans fights his way through a futuristic train is based on a series of French graphic novels. Directed with visceral style by Bong Joon-ho, Snowpiercer developed buzz when it was released in 2014 thanks to its twisty plot and intense action sequences. The graphic novels are worth checking out, though you’ll have to supply your own bizarre Tilda Swinton accent.


6. Ghost World

United Artists
United Artist

Indie filmmaker Terry Zwigoff adapted this film with the help of Daniel Clowes, the writer and artist of the anthology comic Eightball, where the “Ghost World” story first appeared. The film, like the comic, tells the story of two oddball teenage girls making their way towards adulthood. For the film, Zwigoff and Clowes expanded the role of the middle-aged loner (Steve Buscemi) that Enid (Thora Birch) pranks before eventually befriending. The graphic novel helped put Clowes on the map, and the film went on to receive an Oscar nomination for Best Adapted Screenplay in 2002.


5. A History of Violence

New Line Cinema
New Line Cinema

This paired down thriller was a perfect example of respecting the form and brevity of the source material and translating it to the screen. Genre icon David Cronenberg helped steer this adaptation of John Wagner and Vince Locke’s graphic novel to an Oscar win for William Hurt, and a triumphant screening at the Cannes Film Festival.


4. Road to Perdition

Dreamworks
Dreamworks

Sam Mendes followed up his Oscar-adored film debut, American Beauty, by helming this adaptation of the 2002 comic by Max Allan Collins and Richard Piers Rayner. The story of a mob enforcer who seeks revenge on the men who killed his family, it was notable for casting Tom Hanks, aka America’s nicest movie star, as the heavy for once.


3. Art School Confidential

Sony Pictures
Sony Pictures

Terry Zwigoff and Daniel Clowes reunited for this largely autobiographical story of Clowes’ early days in art school. The original comic was just four pages long, meaning much of the material covered in the movie was original. Still, you should watch it for John Malkovich’s trademark bizzaro performance as a pompous professor, and then stick around for the serial killer subplot that feels like it’s from a different movie. This isn’t a classic like Ghost World, but it’s worth seeing just for the singular talents behind it.


2. American Splendor

HBO Films
HBO Films

American Splendor is an autobiographical film, based on an autobiographical series of comics about the life of cartoonist Harvey Pekar, who also appears in the film as himself, talking to his fictional counterpart, played by Paul Giamatti in a career defining performance. It is idiosyncratic, bizarre and something that has to be seen to truly grasp, but with a Grand Jury Prize for Dramatic Film at the 2003 Sundance Film Festival under its belt, it certainly did its source material proud.


1. The Diary of a Teenage Girl

Sony Pictures Classic
Sony Pictures Classic

Based on the semi-autobiographical graphic novel The Diary of a Teenage Girl: An Account in Words and Pictures, this recent indie favorite is about one teenage girl’s sexual awakening by way of an affair with her mother’s boyfriend. The movie, like the comics before it, mixes the moody angst of teendom with a certain magical realism to create an immersive world of sexual delights and snarky comebacks. Frank and funny, the film was an awards season favorite, and took home Best First Feature at the 2016 Spirit Awards.

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Kylo Ren

Use the Farce

Kylo Ren Outtakes, Maron’s Advice for Millennials And More of This Week’s Funniest Videos

This week we're laughing at Beyonce covers, Ab Fab: The Movie trailer and more.

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As another week ends, it’s important to blow off some steam with some hilarious videos. An entertainment appetizer, if you will, that’ll make the transition from work to play a little easier.

From a bumbling Kylo Ren to a perfect take on every white guy who covers Beyonce, here are five funny things from this week you need to watch.

1. Kylo Ren Outtakes


Exceeding fans’ expectations and being better than it had any right to be, Star Wars: The Force Awakens revitalized an ailing franchise from its abominable sequels. And a large part of the recent film’s appeal is its captivating villain, Kylo Ren. But as Auralnauts present in their YouTube video, the antagonist had a little trouble with negotiating his mask. Check out Kylo’s “outtakes” from the film and hope that director J.J. Abrams de-tints the visor for the next installment.


2. Marc Maron’s Advice for Millennials

The prospect of entering a tough job market with a soaring cost of living and a college degree of diminishing quality is enough to discourage any young millennial. Thankfully, IFC’s designated curmudgeon Marc Maron has some helpful advice for the young men and women to find some solace in an increasingly unfeeling word. Sure, it mostly involves swallowing your pride and accepting misery, but the intention is pure. (Find out how Marc digs himself out of his own personal hole when Maron returns on May 4th at 9P.)


3. Pixies’ “Where Is My Mind?” Covered By Animals


If you got somebody’s answering machine in the early-to-mid ’80s, you might’ve been greeted by a chorus of pups barking “Jingle Bells”, “Grand Old Flag”, or another royalty-free tune. In that vein, YouTuber Insane Cherry assembled the bleats, grunts, and meows from a veritable barnyard of animals into a rendition of “Where Is My Mind?” by the Pixies. Yes, the cats sound like they’re stressed, but to their credit, they’re really nailing Frank Black’s voice.


4. Absolutely Fabulous: The Movie trailer

If you’re like us, you probably have fond memories of watching Patsy and Edina’s drunken adventures back when Comedy Central aired AB Fab reruns in the ’90s. Thankfully the gals are back in a new movie, still sloshed and living a fabulous life. (And this time out, they might have killed Kate Moss.) Considering all the hard living they’ve done, we have to echo Jon Hamm (playing himself in the film) and say we’re surprised they’re still alive and kicking. (For more on the film, visit our pals over on BBC America.)


5. White Guy Covers Beyonce’s Lemonade

Beyonce broke the Internet with her Lemonade album and companion music videos, inspiring a slew of covers and tributes from fans. Funny or Die offered up a perfect spoof of earnest white guy YouTubers who cover Beyonce’s #relatable songs.

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TREMORS [US 1990]  FRED WARD, FINN CARTER     Date: 1990

Better Off Fred

5 Roles That Prove Fred Ward Should Be In Every Movie

Catch a Tremors movie marathon Saturday, April 30th on IFC.

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Photo Credit: Universal/Everett Collection

Fred Ward has always exuded a tough but likeable on-screen “bad-assitude” that has enabled him to enjoy a career spanning five decades. Before he had a recognizable “that guy” face to movie fans, he was cast alongside Clint Eastwood in Escape from Alcatraz. Not many actors can play both Henry Miller and David Spade’s dad in Joe Dirt with equal aplomb. Before you catch IFC’s Tremors marathon, check out some roles that prove Fred Ward can hold his own with the Van Dammes and Stallones of the world.

5. Wilkes, Uncommon Valor

Due to his rugged, determined look, Ward was often cast as cops, crooks and military men. It’s no surprise that he appeared in Uncommon Valor, the 1983 film where Gene Hackman puts together a ragtag squad of ex-Vietnam vets to rescue his son who was left behind in Laos. Sure, the movie pretty much set out to make a Vietnam version of The Dirty Dozen, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t entertaining in its own right. Ward fits right in with a cast of ’80s era tough guys, including Patrick Swayze, Randall “Tex” Cobb, and Tim Tomerson. Ward’s character Wilkes was a tough-as-nails Vietnam Vet who was a “tunnel rat” during the war. There’s a funny training session scene that provides a comic relief moment where Wilkes captures every one of the guys in the unit, including Gene Hackman’s Colonel Rhodes, by hiding under water. Eat your heart out, Rambo.


4. Earl Bass, Tremors

Not many actors can pull off lasso-tossing an explosive in order to lure a huge worm creature with snake tongues out of the desert sand, but Ward pulls off the moment with zero camp. His Earl Bass, the tough but average Joe ranch hand turned hero, didn’t need Kevin Bacon’s long hair and exaggerated Southern drawl either. Ward and Kevin Bacon made a great team trying to save their town from the Graboids, elevating the humor in this out-of-this-world (or under-this-world) horror comedy.


3. Sgt. Hoke Moseley, Miami Blues

In a movie where Alec Baldwin completely shines as a psychotic (and highly entertaining) criminal using Miami as his own personal joy ride, Fred Ward gives an equally great performance as the grizzled Miami cop who’s seen one too many cases. After being attacked by Baldwin’s character in his own home, Ward’s Sgt. Hank Moseley loses his badge, his gun and his dentures, which really pisses him off. (And nobody plays pissed off better than Ward.) Baldwin’s Junior goes on a crime spree while using Moseley’s identification. Moseley’s wily veteran slowly begins to figure out what Junior is up to through sly conversations with Baldwin and his overly trusting hooker girlfriend, memorably played by Jennifer Jason Leigh. An underrated action comedy that is all the better for giving us a pure shot of uncut Ward awesomeness.


4. Gus Grissom, The Right Stuff

“An astronaut named Gus?” That was the question asked of Virgil Grissom in The Right Stuff by the executive from Life magazine. Who better to play a fearless, rough-around-the-edges astronaut who refused to be called Virgil than Fred Ward? The Mercury Astronauts were the best of the best, and in the film they were played by a group of great actors who were all perfectly cast to portray the brash group of American heroes. In the film, Gus was blunt and to the point and far from loquacious (his character would never use that word) but when he did speak up, it had meaning. In another pivotal scene, in which Deke Slayton was relaying to the other astronauts what Gus was trying to say about beating a monkey into space, it’s Gus’ response that summed up his character perfectly: “F***in’ A, bubba.” Nobody could have delivered that bad-ass line better than Fred Ward. In fact, “F***in’ A bubba” should have been added into the dialogue of every character he played.


5. Remo Williams, Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins

Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins might have gotten ahead of itself with that title as we never got to see the adventure continue, but it had everything you want in an action movie, starting with Fred Ward. Of course, it also had Joel Grey in heavy makeup portraying Korean martial arts master Chiun, but the less said about that unfortunate bit of dated cultural stereotyping the better. Based on a series of pulp novels, Remo Williams was supposed to be an American alternative to James Bond. In an alternate, much cooler universe, it would have propelled Ward to action movie superstardom. In the film, Ward starts out as a NYC street cop recruited to be a government assassin. His face was altered through plastic surgery (to look less like a generic actor and more like Fred Ward with a clean shave) and then he is given the name Remo Williams. There is a lot of humor in this film, which mostly comes through the interaction between Ward and Grey. Chiun teaches Remo the ways of Sinanju, the ancient Korean marital art which enables you to not only dodge punches but point blank range bullets as well. (Let’s see Mr. Miyagi do that.) Anyone who caught this movie during one of its many TV airings during the ’80s remembers the thrilling fight scenes that takes place on the Statue of Liberty. Only Ward could pull off a turtle neck sweater/leather jacket combo and still look badass.

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